7:26 Waiting on boxes.
7:49 Nothing yet.
7:59 Ward 4. 47 for. 76 against. 123 total.
8:17 Ward 7 walks in.
8:20 Ward 7 92 for. 208 against.
8:26 Ward 2 walks in.
8:33 Ward 2 96 for. 154 against.
8:52 Ward 1 in.
8:55. 1 A-L 159 for. 186 against.
8:59. 1 M-Z 125 for. 128 against.
9:03 Ward 6 in.
9:06 Ward 3 in.
9:07 Ward 6 89 for. 216 against.
9:09 Ward 5 in.
9:11 Ward 3 M-Z 240 for 214 against.
9:19 Ward 5 M-Z 121 for 121 against
9:20 Ward 3 A-L 227 for 255 against
9:29 Ward 3 A-L correction 243 for 273 against
10:11 Ward 5 A-L 138 for 105 against
Unofficial total without absentee 1350 for 1681 against. Issue fails 44.54% to 55.46%.
Glad to see you’re posting results. I haven’t found anywhere else that is publishing them live.
I plugged these numbers into a spreadsheet for some totals and percentages:
Ward For Against Total % For
1 284 314 598 47.5%
2 96 154 250 38.4%
3 240 214 454 52.9% (only half reported)
4 47 76 123 38.2%
5 n/a n/a 0 n/a
6 89 216 305 29.2%
7 92 208 300 30.7%
Total 228 500 728 31.3%
Here are the rest of the numbers plus I corrected an addition error from the previous table in the totals row:
Ward For Against Total % For
1 284 314 598 47.5%
2 96 154 250 38.4%
3 483 487 970 49.8%
4 47 76 123 38.2%
5 259 226 485 53.4%
6 89 216 305 29.2%
7 92 208 300 30.7%
Totals 1350 1681 3031 44.5%
I supported the bond issue and am sorry it failed but I understand why some voters were against it. Between the hospital and school bond issues and the county and city tax increases I think folks have had enough for awhile.
Why don’t we look at selling the hospital, lowering the millage rate then building the police complex? County owned hospitals are a relic.
I am frustrated, disappointed and embarrassed that the bond did not pass. I cannot comprehend why the citizens of this city do not want and expect better for our community. All I can say is that I do not want to hear one word about a “Municipal Complex” during the next election. With the exception of Mr. Perkins and Mr. Vaughn, voters cannot hang this over the head of our elected officials this time. The voting public has had two chances at this and voted against it both times. Do not blame the elected officials for the failure of this project. Blame yourselves.
If we keep viewing ourselves as a little podunk town, that is what we will always be. If we want to be a leading community in this state, we need to step up to the plate.
I thank the citizen-led committee that worked so very hard and spent their own time developing this proposal. It pains me to see their hard work and time going to waste. I would also like to thank Mayor Wiseman and 5 of our elected officials for trying to make our community a better place and trying to move our community into the 21st Century. I do not know what the next step should be, but I feel so sorry for our city officials and police officers. They deserve better than what we are giving them.
uh, jeremy, the oppositions main point was the cost of the land was too DA*N high! NO way property on OLD hwy 82 is worth over $1 million. A cheaper piece of property should have been studied. Absolutely a new complex is needed, just not at this location.
Jeremy, you’ve missed the boat again. The issue isn’t about whether we need a better facility for the police department, it’s the ridiculous 8 mil that’s not workable for the tax payers. There’s nothing wrong with dreaming big, but dreaming realistically is much more productive.
Maybe a search for a new pair of eyes to offer suggestions is in order and a look at the surrounding areas’ facilities would be a good idea, and maybe it’s time for a different attitude by the city officials. Who knows, but what we do know is that what they are doing now is obviously not working in their favor.
Don’t waste your time feeling sorry for our officials, if they don’t take the blinders off, they do deserve what they get.
No, I have not missed the point. And once again, you are showing that you make very uninformed decisions and judgments.
It was a CITIZEN-LED committee that did all of the research and made a recommendation to the BoA. This was not a Board initiative. There was not hidden agenda by the BoA. A committee of Starkville citizens spent around a year examining numerous, numerous properties in the area. Pretty much any piece of land that was or potentially could be an option was researched. Taking in every important factor, not solely the cost of land, they found the Jackson/182 property to be the best fit. So yes, other locations have been studied. No, it has nothing to do with the “attitudes by the city officials.” They appointed a “new pair of eyes” in the citizen committee to examine the issue in an attempt to eliminate politics from the discussion. In fact, the committee was an extremely conservative committee in my opinion. So it was not dominated by a group of “liberal sidewalk-lovers” as many probably assume. On top of that, there were TWO outside, neutral groups of professionals (the Main Street Charrette Team and Placemakers) that also studied this issue and overwhelmingly agreed with the committee’s findings. The proposal was accepted by a majority of the BoA including your beloved Mr. Carver. This was not an initiative by one side of the Board or another.
Look, people have the right to vote however they choose. I am not asking you to agree with my view on this. The part that bothers me the most is that there were numerous Municipal Complex Committee meetings, charrette team meetings, public hearings, city hall open houses, and other venues that were designed to allow anyone to voice their opinions and offer solutions. There was hardly anyone who spoke against this project during those meetings. No one identified a glaring issue with the project. Where were the 1,681 people that voted against the bond during those meetings? They were given an opportunity to respond to this project before it went to a vote. Almost no one took advantage of that opportunity. So now we are left with a good project that was voted down without an explanation of why. Yes, you are saying that it was because of cost. But were you there at any of the presentations that explained why the cost was $8 million? Did you hear how the decisions were made? Based on the crowds at those meetings I can pretty much guess that most were not.
So that is why I am frustrated.
You know, I have as much invested in this campaign as anyone involved. Between my involvement on the citizen’s committee through the campaign (what a wonderful set of TV ads….) and I’m disappointed that it failed, but not shocked. I was surprised by the margin.
What does it say about us? We’re a group of backwater savages? A city of academic elitists? Neither.
The vote said that the taxpayers either 1) didn’t like the plan’s location, 2) didn’t like the plan’s cost or 3) we can’t afford anything now.
The need is there. Good grief is it there. No one- including the group I worked on for a year- has come up with a plan that reaches out across the lines that divide us. I do believe the recommendation- a new police station with renovation of current City Hall- is the best plan so far. The details are where we failed.
This process has highlighted the distrust- and at times- animosity among different groups in Starkville. The Starkville Tea Party is marginalized by the Ward 5 crowd (what I term the mid 20′s/30′s progressive group). STP doesn’t trust the Ward 5 crowd. Other groups- South Montgomery, Westside, among others- have similar issues or mistrusts.
Someone remarked to me at City Hall that Starkville has had a long standing distrust of city government that goes back years. I think that ugly, stark fact is an undercurrent in the bond issue failure.
I’m still amazed that Alderman Roy Perkins can voice encouragement and approval for the plan to the committee in private then bash it weeks later in public.
It failed. It’s time to try something different. I really would love to here from some of the “no” faction on what we should do to fix the problem. Call me at 662-324-2489 or email robbiebroadcastmediagoup.com.
Robbie Coblentz
I voted for this project. I figure any one who dedicates their career to being a civil servant and placing their life on the line deserves proper facilities. Looking at the milage calculator My taxes would have been raised around $45. To everyone who says this cost to much…why don’t you eat out one less meal a YEAR. Then explain to your family that you are going to eat in that evening so the policemen don’t have to worry about working with the smell of raw sewage in the air.
The Tea Partiers frustrate me. I have yet to see them contribute to ANYTHING going on in this town. I deeply respect the people in our town activley trying to improve our situation. Unfortunately many people here like being the opposition for the just for the sake of being the opposition. To those people, “Thanks.”
Robbie,
First, I am a supporter of a new complex, but unfortunately no longer can vote on it since I do not live there. Timing is always an issue in bond elections. Unfortunately, the City could have taken care of business back in 2004 or 2005 when the Municipal Justice Complex was first proposed. In the mean time, the Starkville School District and Oktibbeha County Hospital took advantage of more favorable economic times in 2007 and 2009 and beat the City to the funds of the voters. The City currently has a very low millage rate of 20, but the school district has one of the highest (62.44) and the county’s is not a whole lot better (49.77), so a resident of Starkville doesn’t see just 20 mills on his tax bill, he sees 132.54 (Oxford by comparison is around 106 – Madison – 116).
I think most citizens of Starkville like the idea (there will always be some who oppose everything) of a new police station and renovated City Hall, but I believe number 3 is your winner in your quote:
“The vote said that the taxpayers either 1) didn’t like the plan’s location, 2) didn’t like the plan’s cost or 3) we can’t afford anything now.”
Although the bond issue is probably minimal to the average person, the timing was extremely bad since many people are experiencing economic troubles like never before. The electorate in general also has exhibited a disdain for any government spending which put the citizenry further in debt, whether it is at the federal, state or local level. Further, most people have not seen a tangible threat that is posed by having insufficient number of police officers or insufficient facilities.
I appreciate the work you and others put into the project and believe it is still viable (just at a later date). Just my opinion, its worth what you paid for it.
Well said Robbie. I think the distrust was a huge part of it. But I thought the point of having a well-rounded, citizen-led committee lead the effort was the answer to that. That took the BoA out of it except for their final approval. Like I said before, this was a very conservative committee with a lot of well-respected citizen representatives. I also thought that taking city hall out of the equation would have helped that as well since it wouldn’t be seen as the elected officials building something extravagant for themselves. In my opinion the perfect (as perfect as possible) process was put in place to choose the best project. Every effort was made to make this a community-led effort, not a politician-led one.
Two main things frustrate me. First, I am frustrated that many of the “No” voters made extremely uneducated decisions. I cannot tell you how many comments I have read and heard from people saying that the bond would have passed if they had not lumped city hall into the project. WHAT? They didn’t even take the time to educate themselves on what the vote was about. I have also heard many comments (even on this site) about the process and making suggestions on how they “should have” done things. If these people had attended one of the public meetings about the project they would have seen that was EXACTLY how the process was handled. Again, an uneducated judgment was made.
Secondly, to Mr. Starks’ point. I do agree with most of your points. I do not know what the numbers are exactly, but I agree that we pay way too much in county taxes for the services that we get in return. We may be paying more taxes than an Oxford resident, but that is NOT because of the city! It is because of the county. So why do the “Vote no to everything” people and the TEA Partiers not bring their same energy and passion to the county officials where it is actually needed. The county has continually raised taxes and given themselves raises without a peep from the “No Group” in Starkville. Yet they come out in droves to fight every little initiative in Starkville. This I cannot understand. We ask our city to provide us with so many amenities (roads, sewers, street lights, police and fire protection, sanitation services, clean water, etc., etc.) but we have one of the lowest millage rates of any city our size. Compare that list of services to the services provided by the county. There is no comparison. As a city resident what do I get from the county? A few pothole covered roads and the courthouse (slight exaggeration)? The service/tax ratio is not even close when comparing the city and county. So TEA Partiers and NOers, where are you?
Folks, we are not Eupora or Louisville where you can probably get by with lower millage rates. We are the 15th largest city in the state not counting our temporary residents (students), which would probably put us somewhere in the 7th or 8th largest city range. Not counting the tens of thousands of visitors we have in town every other weekend. Those 50,000 people use our roads, water, police protection, sanitation services, etc. We have to step it up as a city and get rid of the small-town mentality.
We could be one of the leading cities in this state if we would get out of our own way.
Well said, Jeremy. If I were a police recruit and got offered a job in Starkville, I’d look at the facilities and say “No thanks.”
Starkville is a socialist town. The majority of the people who work here are paid by the Government (ie MSU). Between people on government and every MSU students (they are all getting subsidized) and every person who works at MSU, this town is full of people who live off of hardworking taxpayers.
The police in Starkville do not have a tough time. Their job is cake. They don’t work hard. Their job is a joke compared to most police forces. They are socialists who take money from taxpayers in the form of a salary. They then go around inflicting financial harm on individuals and the community by issuing citations for seatbelts bicycle helmets and other trivial infractions that exclusively inflict financial harm on hardworking individuals. $45 a year in tax increases? sure tell your friends to not eat out an extra meal. What about the family who can’t eat out an extra meal and is already in the red? $45 increase to build a city hall that our socialist leaders want to play god and make decisions that the government knows nothing about but some paper pushing administrator decides it sounds good on paper.
So yes our bicycle helmet ticketeting policemen want a new building. Forget about it. They already sucked us taxpayers dry. I think we should cut some of our police force.
The people who voted against this were probably out working and don’t have time to attend civic meetings. When people are productive they are busy.
Distrust? Distrust anyone who wishes for the government to step into our private lives and attempt innappropriate regulation of our activities. The government takes our taxpayers money and finds ways to blow it.
Does the local governemnt have any experience in managing money? Its hard to make a good decision about money without adequate background knowledge.
The better question that will appease a more diverse audience in this matter is: Aren’t there better ways to spend the money requested from the stand of an investment return? Who wants more policemen to want to come to starkville Jeremy? NOT ME
Don’t we want more businessmen? More asians to make our schools perform better? More JOBS? No one is going to ride in a 100k $ car on streets that are 3rd world.
I could rant for a long time.
Vote NO! Don’t make Starkville more attractive to socialists and government leeches by giving them a new office. What have they done to deserve it?
Give them a bigger city hall and they will be better at stepping into your life and performing innappropriate activities.
BA,
I hate to point out the obvious here – but the your entire rant is rather baseless since socialism requires ultimately removing group decision making in favor of the choices of one (or a few) all-important individuals. As this was a vote by referendum – you couldn’t be more incorrect.
@BA, are you implying that you yourself do not benefit from any government spending. Huh? I’d hate to spend my life NOT driving on roads. How about that clean air? How do you avoid breathing the air? I am sure you are well aware that tax payer money goes to the EPA. Do you like medicine BA? Regarding students at MSU who are receiving tuition support, you know some of them go on to be doctors. When was the last time you asked your Dr. if he received any subsidized loans for his schooling? Do you drive a vehicle? Are you sure that the gas you are using wasn’t subsidized?
BA, I don’t know you and I pray that your response was satirical, but if it wasn’t I need to let you in on a little secret…you are a socialist too.
You are right Neal…all those things are subsidized and myself and every other American who uses them gets them at other taxpayers expense. In fact we live in a welfare state that could not survive without being subsidized. Our entire state is subsidized. So lets spend more money to subsidize more things so more people can enjoy more benefits from the government. ..Right? More More More??? Less than 0.5% of students will be medical doctors lol.
Bethany—I make no assertions about this vote being somehow a socialist vote. I am simply explaining that people should vote NO on this issue. Most people in Starkville are paid by MSU so I understand how statistically we have many people here who believe that more government benefits are good. I also acknowledge that statistically many workers paid by the state or city have minimal knowledge of an economic system that relies on capitalism rather than an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively such as at Mississippi State University.
Behind every company are individuals. The integrity of the individuals is representative of the company. Behind every government are individuals and their subsequent influence. Government isn’t accountable to anyone.